Melissa interviewed by Hayley Avron

This interview was conducted on 10th april at the Cockpit in Leeds, UK, by Hayley who was with her friend Katie. Many thanks to Hayley for sharing!

From: Hayley Avron, 2004-04-10
Date added: 2004-05-05

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Where are you living now, when you’re not on tour?
“I live back in Montreal. I sort of move between New York and Montreal but I officially moved out of New York last year. I wanted to spend more time in Canada. I love the States, I love my life there, my friends are all there. But the worse the politics get… I’m ever so critical about it.”

Where did you write the songs on the album?
“Oh, all over. These songs date back from ’93. I wanted to put everything up until that moment that I decided to make a record, into a record. I basically went through all my old demos and all my old songs and chose a collection that I thought balanced out musically, lyrically.

“‘Real A Lie’ is the oldest song. That was the last song that I wrote with my old band, Tinker. I abandoned my life and my band to join Hole, which was a very difficult decision to make. When I wrote that song, I said to Steve, my old band member and now my touring guitarist with whom I’m very happy to be reunited with, 10 years later, I said ‘This is us. This is our style.’ So when I left that life, that song, I look back at it like a friend I’m leaving, like, ‘I’ll be back, I promise.’

“I’d just started sort of discovering myself when I left to join Hole, so a lot of the making of this record is me kind of trying to go back to my roots, get to the original place that I was, I was 19 years old, 20 years old, first picking up the bass and writing songs, trying to return to that innocence, having also had all the education and experience and ‘life know-how’ between then and now.

“So this record was kinda like a combination of the luck I’d had and being able to have this thing that not all musicians – very few musicians – get: to live their dreams and travel the world. And that, I have never forgotten, that I was this rare, random person that was chosen from Canada, so in this record I wanted to celebrate that in the most pure way, away from record companies, or away from managers, just make this record that has been brewing in me for years.

“Which is why this record has been written everywhere from in my apartment when I was a student in Montreal, to when I was living in LA and hating it and sort of feeling like I’m getting to live this adventure and see Los Angeles in the heart of this Hollywood insanity but at the same time my heart was longing for returning home to what felt normal to me.”

It sounds very coherent, for an album that was written over such a time-span.
“Thank you, that’s good. Some people say it’s really diverse and I say, ‘well that’s good, because I’ve tried to make it different, others say it’s cohesive and that’s good, too.”

Katie: “I’m surprised that ‘Real A Lie’ is the oldest song on there.
“That’s part of my overall philosophy of life, that you’re born who you are. The day you’re born, you have a soul that you have been carrying for a thousand hundred years, travelling in and out of different humans. I happen to have been born with this one and it has a certain style, a certain life and different things and along the way, you get nurtured and developed but that, ultimately I’m the same person that I was when I was twelve, when I was 19, that I will be when I’m 90.

“‘Real A Lie’ is a real testament to me that, ‘I haven’t changed’. I can play my instrument better and I’m a much better musician now but all these things come from my diary and that hasn’t changed that much either. Of course, I’ve grown smarter about love and people and stuff but it’s still the same mystery of the everyday and trying to process experience.”

It seems like a very honest album.
“That’s all I need. That’s all I expect from people. Even if you’re a dumb person, a silly person, mean person, just be honest with what it is that you are. You can’t hide when you’re in a love relationship, or music, you can’t, like, pretend you’re better than you are or stronger than you are. That’s why I see music and love as the two things that make me a better person. It forces me to be honest and I can’t pretend.

“When I made this record, I had this idealistic notion of: I’m not gonna have a record company, I’m just gonna pay for it myself, it’s gonna be all my friends and everything was so easy because my ideals were so pure and honest, right down to: I want James Iha on this song because I love James for this reason, emotionally and musically and I hear exactly where James can add his beauty and where James can come into the studio for a day and say ‘Melissa, I’m proud of you, that you’re doing this.’”

(Claire brings in food)

What was it like working with people like Eric and James in a different context?
“Amazing and it’s a very big question, obviously, because for reasons other than I love Eric and James and they’re great guitar players, this record was very emotional and it was me wanting to define music for me and really create something different to what it was before. The fact of the matter is, when I was in Hole and the Pumpkins, it was about Billy and Courtney. It wasn’t about Eric and Jim. They were in the same spot I was and you had to nurture and support the other person. When both bands broke up, I was like, ‘James, what are you gonna do? Whatever you need to do, I’ll be there for you.’”

“I was very emotional throughout most of the record, because of how much these people meant to me. And to see, you know, Eric and James are both very shy individuals, too, which was also, you know, they were so humble. Actually, all the musicians, even the most strong ones, like Josh Homme, had a humble respect, you know, like ‘this is your record Melissa, I’m not gonna come and step on it. And don’t use it if you don’t want to.’

“It was just like a love-fest of very sweet men and it was great because it was totally refreshing and I felt like I was able to heal any weirdness that could have happened. Because when you’re in band together, it’s very intense, it’s like being in a family, There were definitely arguments I had with Eric that I feel bad about and I felt like I could say, ‘Eric, welcome to my world, where there is no arguing!’ We were able to meet in this really emotionally pure place and have just one day in the studio and to have him be able to do his own thing to make up for the times when there was this uncomfortableness during the making of Celebrity Skin when there was this big, power-hungry producer telling him…you know, there was none of that.”

Do you miss the gang mentality of being in a band or do you have that now anyway?
“I think I have that even more now because, I mean, I made the record in the fantasy way, you know, there was no commitment, we were just hanging out and so I put this touring band together that was like this whole different mentality. I needed committed, hard-working people and with the touring thing, I feel like I’ve achieved more of a team thing than I’ve ever had.

“What I wanted to do, was, I had three requirements. One: nice person. Top priority. Two: Talented, able to reproduce the songs on the record; they had to be able to just come in and replicate other people’s parts. Steve, I was in a band with before, I didn’t have to audition him and Kim, I’ve seen her band play many times in Los Angeles, mutual friends and I just thought, one day, she’s the girl should be in my band. It was that simple. I sent her the record, a week later, she came and played every part perfectly.

“The other requirement was that none of them had been in a world touring band before. I wanted everyone to have a brand new perspective and appreciation of, like, hey, we’re in Leeds tonight and we have all the water we can drink and meet all these cool people who love rock…”

Like you had when you joined Hole…?
“Exactly.”

You’ve spoken in the past about your experience being like getting BA in Rock, something that’s been quoted back at you, I should think?
“Absolutely, I mean, everyone of them, if one of them’s 24, the other one’s 34, it doesn’t matter how old but when you travel the world and as a musician, you live this moment of reward for all these years you’ve dreamt of playing music and every night you see those smiling faces thanking you for having spent those years playing music, you grow in a way that you can’t grow in another way.

“There’s no other reward for a musician. You’re never too old to get your masters in rock music. And to come on tour and to understand that magic, that, once you have it, well, I would never take it for granted, that magic that happens between strangers and music, it’s like glue that pulls people together. You never even have to talk to them, you just have this bond that happens.

“At the end of it, I just think ‘holy shit, there’s these music fans just like me all over the world that I just somehow came into contact with over six years’ and that is the most profound thing.”

"I’ve seen people who’ve been in successful bands for 10, 15 years who maybe forget this very simple spark which is why they picked up a guitar at sixteen and decided to start playing music and it was very important for me to be around people who haven’t had the opportunity to forget the beginning and it also sort of gives me that little pat on the back of, ‘I’m glad you remember, Melissa.’ And not be squished by some of the crap that comes with being in a band."

“There’s nothing I hate more than people in big bands complaining about it but the fact is that the music industry does have a way of sapping the magic out of the music and it becomes a business. You find yourself talking about press, radio, the whole thing. The music is always going to be magical enough to conquer any bullshit like that.”

Did you have any reservations about putting the album out on a major label?
“Absolutely, I mean, especially after I made the record myself, paid for it myself, own everything. I still own my publishing, now. My instinct was to sign to an independent label, I had a deal with this cool European label from Germany, called City Slang…”

They put out the first Hole album, right?
“Yeah, and in my touring with those bands, I met like, five people that I actually trust that are in there because they LOVE music. And this one guy who runs City Slang, was the first person I called, and said I’ve made this record, great…”

CUTS OUT, pause whilst I sort out my dictaphone… meanwhile Melissa chats with Katie about Katie’s virgin gig experience, Smashing Pumpkins in Manchester on their last tour…

“Cool, I’m glad you saw that show, I was dressed as Posh Spice. Oh, yeah, that tour was the most musically heavy and I mean my muscles were like, I became like an athlete. It was so long and there were no days off. It was like: From now on you’re touring, no days off, you can’t get sick, you can’t make a mistake. Ok? Ready?”

"What were you asking me before, about…oh, yeah, the major label thing."

“Yes, I was about to sign to City Slang because in my ideal of independence, I’m working with this independent company and with Hole and Smashing Pumpkins, when I joined them, they were at their peak, or breaking up and there was so much pressure from record companies and the thought of that being near me disturbed me.”

“And when I was going to sign, I didn’t have a manager or anything and then a light bulb went off, like, ‘I should probably get a manager and check my options here.’ And in the end, it worked out good because I got a manager who totally understood my need for independent things and knew that Europe was very important to me. The way I see it, when you’re a musician, Europe is the place where you can have this open-minded audience, every culture has a different take on it, you can have a long life here whereas in the States there’s just one perspective, there’s like MTV, Spin, people read British magazines to find out what’s going on.”

“So, basically I got the best of both worlds in which my manager found a record label in the States, Capitol, which again, I think was the only label I could’ve or would’ve gone for because we were sending them out to a few major labels and the response was “oh, it’s cool, but it doesn’t sound like anything on the radio.” And then Capitol was the only one that said “Cool, it doesn’t sound like anything on the radio.” They said all the right things at the right time, they thought ‘Followed The Waves’ was the best one. Well, that’s not the obvious single, which means you’re smart.”

“That’s the song for me that represents the whole record. When I wrote that song, I had a creative epiphany of like, I can make a record, and not be terrified of bringing the quiet girl voice I have to a heavy riff. That song was the first time that I felt them put together.

“I was able to pick exactly what channels I wanted the record to come out on in Europe, I’ll spend three solid months in Europe before I even have to get into the whole scary rat-race of the United States so now more power to the music because I have the resources where I can go on tour for 6 months and make sure the music is reaching the right people whereas the little label, they wouldn’t have been able to, well, first of all I had to hire a band, because I need a band so I’m very, very grateful that I got a major label behind me although, of course, I’d rather be independent but at this point, until the music industry crumbles, which it’s about to in the next few years, I am helpless without the, I need the structure that musicians need to get their stuff out there.

“I have faith that somehow, some day, the middle man that takes all the money, will go away so that I can get my music to the people and we don’t need this huge, over-extending structure to get the music to the people.”

What do you think of downloading?
“I think it’s fine. However music needs to get out there, as a musician, I’m thinking, people explain to me, how many records, percentages…I don’t care. I don’t understand. As long as I get the money to feed my band and go on tour today, as long as people hear the music, that’s why I make it, it’s so people can be happy from it, I don’t care, I really don’t.”

I usually get vilified for talking too much about sex and music, but you were talking before about music and love being similar. How do you see the two relating?
“Music and love comes completely intertwined as the same thing in my life. It’s the pursuit of the magic. Music is this thing that you can’t ever buy, or hold, it’s a thing that you have to work very hard to be able to have in your life; it’s this gift that you can’t take for granted. It’s the same with love; love is not easy but it’s the best thing in the entire world as well as the most painful thing. If you don’t have organised religion then you have music and love. Or all three, I guess, some people have, but I don’t have organised religion.

“So in that way, and also just the simple act of writing and playing music is completely intertwined with the physical love and music is like, the spiritual side of it, the playing of it is like the physical side of it, the physical union of the love thing. When I play music, it’s the closest thing to having sex.

“I’m glad I’m talking to you two about it, I avoid saying things to guys; I have said things in the past and it’s like ‘wooh, she’s fucking her bass’ or whatever. But the fact is, it’s very much like that. When I discovered rock music and the physical thing that you feel at a rock show, well, that was probably my biggest sexual revolution. And that wasn’t actually about being with a guy, that was about taking charge of your power, strength, potential dominance, beauty, anger, all combined into one thing.

“Rock is very sexy, as we all know, and to let people explore that feeling… I think, as a woman, there’s no way I would be as liberated as I am in my love if I hadn’t liberated myself musically. The more I liberate myself musically, the happier my love relation gets. It’s like, all the years I was sort of almost 100% with music, but also a little scared, my love thing wasn’t quite working then I decided to make this record work, go for it, risk everything, my love life became better too, because as soon as I made that commitment to life…it was terrifying, I could fail, it could be bad, I could get my heart broke on every level and I did it with both love and music at the same time and I’m happier than ever been, now. And I have this wonderful boyfriend and the most wonderful music life.

“I really think, back to this physical thing, that for women, in this record, I’m gonna secretly hope that more women feel more attracted to the heavy sensual sexual feeling that rock music has. It doesn’t mean go out and screw guys, it means the part of yourself that feels very passionate and physical and confident and I hope I can invite more women into exploring that part of themselves.”

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